Present & Former E-Sangha Members Speak Out ...

On this page, we shall print samples of submitted statements by former or present members of 'E-Sangha' describing their experiences on that website. While both statements criticial of and defending E-Sangha will be printed here, readers should not be surprised that the majority are critical, and detail what, in the writer's eyes, constitutes unfair or biased treatment, 'sect bashing' or pejorative comments and the like at the hands of site administrators and moderators and/or sectarian bias in E-Sangha's website policies. The reason is simply that we have received few statements in defense. We wish to allow people to speak who, due to being silenced and expelled from E-Sangha, are unable to tell their tale there. We will only print those statements which the writer has authorized to be reprinted. The samples printed here were submitted from early 2009, and shall be removed when it is clear that there has been a change in the policies of E-Sangha which no longer makes their content relevant. Until such time, they shall remain.

In presenting these stories, our intent is to educate those who may encounter that website seeking fair and complete information on Buddhism, but who are unfamiliar with the complex realities surrounding E-Sangha. We will let the stories speak for themselves, for we feel the best course is simply to allow many voices to tell their own tales, and to place these stories in the open. We may not print all submitted statements, as. we wish to print statements that are clearly written in a calm, non-aggressive, sincere, respectful and forthright manner, and which otherwise appear to constitute 'Right Speech'. However, we may sometimes allow very strong or critical words, if not stepping over the line into anger. We will also do our best to confirm factual claims, which may result in delay or hesitancy in our posting some comments. We wish to limit stories to first hand accounts as much as possible. We will not always print the authors name in full, or may disguise the author's identity, provided that we have been able to confirm the identity of the author for ourselves, and/or the general evidence for the author's story.  We are also happy to print any statement by the owner, administrators or current moderators of E-Sanga explaining the reasons for their actions and/or E-Sangha policies, and hope that they will submit the same.

 

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STATEMENT BY REV. NONIN CHOWANEY ( current abbot and head priest of the Nebraska Zen Center at the Heartland Temple in Omaha, Nebraska)  CLICK HERE TO READ HIS STATEMENT

 

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COMMENT BY FORMER THERAVADA MODERATOR RETROFUTURIST

_{In response to a request for comment, former moderator RETROFUTURIST provided this quote from 'The Edicts of King Asoka":} "Whoever praises his own religion, due to excessive devotion, and condemns others with the thought 'Let me glorify my own religion,' only harms his own religion".  _{Read the full passage (HERE)}

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STATEMENT BY A TIBETAN BUDDHISM PRACTIONER (requesting anonymity)

sangha friends...

i am very happy to see that you have launched e-sangha watch. i wish to share my experiences anonymously, as my e-sangha experience has been quite negative, and i can not rule out vengeance on the part of the e-sangha moderators.

i have been a tibetan buddhist for over twenty years. in that time i have studied in practiced in the gelug, kagyu and nyingma schools of tibetan buddhism. my teachers are among some of the most highly respected scholars and masters in the living traditions of tibetan buddhism. i mention this not to promote myself, but to contextualize my own experience in the tibetan tradition. i have never once experienced any form of sectarianism from any of these teachers. i have also never once experienced any contempt for other spiritual traditions, be it the bon tradition of tibet, zen and cha'an of east asia, or the abrahammic religions of the west. i have never witnessed self promotion, the control and manipulation of others, or the use of fear and alienation as a tactic. i have never experienced anything other than an environment open to questioning, debate and analysis.

in e-sangha i have encountered all of these things.

on one level, that is not surprising. we are all human and deeply flawed. we naturally externalize the truth, project our issues onto others, and throw our weight around in well intentioned by deluded ways to help people. the world is the backdrop to our delusion and neurotic habituations. that is why we practice.

in the case of e-sangha this deluded humanity is very dangerous. e-sangha attempts to be the premiere internet buddhist sangha presence, and in that spirit, attempts to moderate its forums accordingly. that in itself is a beautiful thing. e-sangha also attempts to be a virtual sangha for those without real sanghas. that too is a beautiful thing.

the problem comes form the fact that the e-sangha moderators are blind to their own manifestions of the three poisons.

over the years i have seen:

* people banned or threads closed for asking questions that were not considered suitable by the e-sangha moderators
* people banned or verbally sanctioned, including banning, for asserting certain philosophical and spiritual view points
* entire forums being cut and reinstated on the whims of the moderators
* threads deleted or closed because a moderator simply did not like the content
* the authenticity of valid teachings being questioned and rumors about teachers being spread
* lists of "good" and "bad" teachers and dharmas being circulated
* grudges being held by the moderators. ip's being banned so that individuals who are tossed out can not come back under a different pseudonym. this means that it is the individual not the behavior being punished.
* people being banned for questioning the actions of a moderator
* people being banned or sanctioned for asking for clarifications about the forum policies
* inconsistencies regarding politics. it's against policy to discuss certain aspects of tibetan buddhist religious politics-- unless a moderator so wishes
* inconsistencies regarding secrecy. it's against policy to discuss certain aspects of tibetan tantric practice-- unless a moderator so wishes.
* a complete lack of transparency regarding forum management. it is impossible to have a dialogue with the moderators, and it is impossible to gain any insight into the "back room" discussions motivating forum management.
* any discussion of the social and political aspects of traditional asian tibetan buddhism is shut down on the grounds of this questioning the guru and the lineage, etc.
* any genuine need to discuss teacher abuse, financial inpropriety, etc. in vajrayana sanghas is shut down for the same reasons
* any attempt at interfaith dialogue or progressive thinking in the context of vajrayana is frowned upon.

this is all very bad. what is worse is that this manifestation of personal delusion is presented as the one true religion. it is presented in a condescending, patronizing way. it is presented in the context of a faux religious heierarchy. if one *knew* like they *knew*-- then we would think differently. explain myself? no way. just shut up.

thanks

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STATEMENT BY CLYDE GROSSMAN (founder of 'Do No Harm' Movement)

My name is Clyde Grossman.  I am a long time lay Buddhist practitioner, reading, studying and pondering the Dharma on-and-off for 40 years (and some years more off than on).  I belong to no tradition, sect, or teacher though my focus has been mainly Ch'an/Zen, with some Tibetan Buddhism, a little Pure Land, and for the last half-dozen years the Pali suttas.  All my readings (and now audio/video too) are in English or English translation.  Until very recently I belonged to no sangha, I was a ‘solitary practitioner', but about six months ago I began participating at a local sangha, the Sacramento Buddhist Meditation Group ( http://www.sbmg.org/ ) which is a peer-led, non-sectarian Buddhist sangha with visiting teachers from all traditions.  The SBMG may be the only such sangha in the world and it just celebrated its 18th anniversary.

 

I joined E-sangha in December of 2006 and I was banned in January of 2009.

 

At first I was delighted to find a large and active forum that included all Buddhist traditions and major sects.  Before I joined, I was able to read the threads/posts on the forum (This is no longer possible as E-sangha has made all the threads/posts unavailable to guests.), so I had some impression of the topics and exchanges.  As I began to participate in threads it became clear to me that some topics and some views were ‘dangerous'.  Unfortunately for me, a few of my views fell into that category.  I want to emphasize that most of my views would be seen as traditional, at least within the Mahayana tradition, and that the few so-called ‘dangerous' views are accepted (or tolerated) views by some Zen teachers.

 

I also began to notice an attitude of some officials (administrators and moderators) of E-sangha which I felt was detrimental to Buddhism and to E-sangha, and which harmed some members or dissuaded people from the Dharma.  Some former members, who left either voluntarily or were banned, communicated that they were hurt or were so dissuaded.

 

Meanwhile, I sent a few PMs ("Private Messages") to Leo, the founder of E-sangha, and to E-sangha officials.  My PMs sometimes expressed a disagreement with an E-sangha policy (as when E-sangha decided to ‘hide' the threads/posts from guests) or were suggestions which I believed would make E-sangha better.  These PMs were often ignored and when I did receive a reply, it was negative and often without explanation or opportunity for discussion.

 

After a time, I decided to avoid the ‘dangerous' topics (and officials) and limit my participation to the Zen forum and the Soto Zen forum in particular, as I felt most welcome there . . . until July, 2008 when Jundo Cohen was banned and the Soto Zen sub-forum was closed and deleted.

 

After this incident, my participation at E-sangha began to wane.  I would occasionally log-on and read some threads, and even less frequently participate in some thread.  It was on one such occasion that I read the thread "just sitting" found in the Chan/Zen/Soen General Forum.  I read Namdrol's last entry, noticed that the thread was closed and Nonin [Rev. Nonin Chowaney, current abbot and head priest of the Nebraska Zen Center] was banned.  Nonin was banned!  I was stunned.  I sent a PM to Huifeng, a moderator for the forum, and Namdrol about this.  Here is the PM:

 

I'm stunned.  E-sangha has banned Nonin.  A friend is gone . . . over a subtle doctrinal matter; i.e., the nature of Shakyamuni Buddha.

 

Try this: tell someone, a family member or a friend, or a stranger, or whomever you chose who isn't a Buddhist, tell them what happened and why, and observe the reaction you get.

 

Disbelief.  That's what I get.

 

They also received this which I also posted as the start of the "I thought . . ." thread:

 

I thought we were Buddhists.  You know, we're on a ‘path' that leads to Buddhahood.  I don't know, maybe some of you are Buddhas.  Sometimes it seems to me that you are awakened beings, but often times not.

 

So we're on the path; maybe you're ahead of me, maybe I'm ahead of you; sometimes I don't know, and then the circumstances change.  So we don't agree about every profound and subtle point of doctrine, so what?  Do our different views cause you harm?  Do you suffer, other than knowing you're right, from reading my ‘wrong' views?  I don't think you do, so let it be.

 

And if you think, "I must protect the innocent who may be confused or misled."  Think, even children understand that people have different views, so no one will be confused that we have different views.  And other people will have their preferences, so no one will be misled.

 

Given the conflicts in the world today, it is especially sad that different views of the Dharma and the people who hold them cannot co-exist peacefully.

 

This thread was deleted, then it re-appeared, and finally it was closed.

 

As bannings are not publicly announced or discussed, I also sent PMs to some of the other participants on the Chan/Zen/Soen General Forum informing them of Nonin's banishment.  As one person replied in shock at the news, "Not gentle Nonin!"

 

As members or former members of E-sangha know, each member has a "Warning Level" which is an indication of your adherence to the rules.  My Warning Level was and always was at 0%.  Yet suddenly I was banned without warning or explanation.  I sent an e-mail to Huifeng and Namdrol and asked for an explanation for my banishment.  The next day I received an e-mail from Todd Marek, an administrator, who explained that I had been banned because of PMs I had sent.  Previously I had exchanges with several E-sangha officials who had explicitly stated that one could discuss ‘forbidden' topics by PM and I had even done so with some officials.  Now it seemed that I was banned because of a PM.  I asked Todd which PM had caused this decision and he replied that would be "a breach of confidence" to tell me; i.e., it would be a breach to tell me which PM I had written and sent that had so offended E-sangha officials.

 

What does this mean?  And why bother?

 

It means nothing.  But I bother because I know that some people have been unnecessarily hurt or have been dissuaded from the Dharma because of the attitudes expressed by some officials of E-sangha or by some of the policies of E-sangha, so I act to alert others of the potential harm; I bother because I wish to offer comfort to those who have been harmed; and I bother because I believe E-sangha could be a better.

 

How?  E-sangha could become what it presents itself as; i.e., a Buddhist discussion forum "for Buddhists around the world. E-Sangha is a place where Buddhists are able to meet on the internet to discuss all matters relating to Buddhism." (from their web-page: http://www.e-sangha.com/ )  This would mean policies that foster inclusion and openness.  And the change would be challenging, but many Buddhists would joyfully help.  Or E-sangha can change its definition to more closely match its actual policies and the attitudes of the E-sangha administrators.  This would mean stating that E-sangha is not inclusive of all Buddhist sects and teachers, is not open to all discussions or Buddhist views, and which Buddhist sects, teachers and views are permitted on E-sangha is the decision of the administrators of E-sangha and that exclusion does not reflect on the standing of those Buddhist sects, teachers or views within the worldwide Buddhist community.

 

Meanwhile, it seemed worthwhile to bother with this Statement, so I did.  And moved on.

 

Do no harm,
clyde

 

P.S.If you like short quotes from the Sutras as support (I do):

"Shariputra, when the Buddhas of the future shall come into the world, they will also by means of limitless, countless expedient devices, various causes and conditions, analogies and expressions, proclaim all the Dharmas to living beings. These Dharmas will all be for the sake of the One Buddha Vehicle. Hearing the Dharma from the Buddhas, all these living beings will ultimately attain to the Wisdom of all Modes.

-- from the Lotus Sutra, Chapter Two, Expedient Devices

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STATEMENT BY E-SANGHA MEMBER E.C.

I was happy to come across your site. I have been involved in Buddhism now for 43 years and have often felt distressed over the situation at e-sangha. I have watched things get worse over time and am not surprised to see how far they have gone. There is an unfortunate tendency in American Buddhist discussion to manipulate the transparency and openness of forums - for lineage affiliation reasons, disagreements in view, or financial. I am glad to see you are taking action.

How much was your matching funds for ....... I think I would also like to make such a donation. What sort of advertising will you do with it? I am hoping you will stick with this. The worst aspect is that new and interested people who come to Buddhism think this is an "open" discussion platform and do not realize it is in fact a vehicle for manipulation of opinion.

Sincerely,

E.C.

 

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STATEMENT BY ANDREW, WHO CREATED AN "E-SANGHA ALERT" BLOG

Hi,

Firstly, thankyou for setting up e-sangha watch. The sentiments you convey reflect very closely my own feelings on the situation over there.

In fact I have been thinking about doing something for a while.

It does seem that once you start to look through many of the different subforums there, a pattern emerges which may prove rather revealing.

That being the case, inspired by E-Sangha watch, I have started a blog where I'm posting examples of the type of conversations which seem to be at best rather boorish and at worst aggressive and bullying. My intention is not to offer any commentary to the postings, but rather let them speak for themselves. I also intend to provide examples from across the different subforums.

Any advice you have concerning the blog would be most appreciated.

the link is here:

http://esanghalert.wordpress.com/

Best regards,

Andrew

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STATEMENT BY KEVIN SOLWAY (Banned Member) (Editor's Note: We debated whether to post this, as our challenge to E-Sangha is not about the worth of anyone's personal beliefs, even if unusual in the eyes of another. However, we felt that, overall, the comment merited posting on the issue of administrator actions and attitudes. We also felt that Mr. Solway, though quoting another's words at one point, made it clear that the words captured his feelings and experience.)

Thanks for your webpage about e-sangha.

E-Sangha (or e-stasi, as it is sometimes known) is simply a fundamentalist forum, but is not honest enough to admit the fact.

I myself was banned simply for pointing out the errors in the belief in literal rebirth.

In my view, e-sangha represents *willing* ignorance. Instead of saying "we don't know" they prefer to say "It is so, because my teacher says it is so."

I found this post on the net which I find expresses my own view.

"Mike" relays his experience of the e-sangha, fundamentalist forum:

"I have long thought there should be some free discussion about the strange, parallel world of E-sangha. For my sins I have wasted far too many hours idly browsing its forums over the past year or so. It is a nightmare place, at once utterly repellent and bizarrely alluring. There is something almost irresistible about the sheer weirdness of so many of its threads and the mad, tyrannical fundamentalism of its moderators. As the world's biggest online Buddhist forum it does for Buddhist PR what suicide bombers have done for Islam, presenting Buddhism as a deeply unattractive, even fanatical religion and its followers as disturbed and quite possibly insane. Yet there is no doubting its entertainment value. After all, it's not everywhere one can find animated discussions revolving around the belief that early humans lived for 84,000 years, with not one post challenging this claim. A brief trawl through the extraordinary musings of E-sangha members reveals a picture of online Buddhists who fantasise about the imagined bliss of selflessness yet whose egos generate enough heat to power a small city, who are preoccupied with such issues as whether ants create karma and how many bodies a bodhisattva can manifest at once, and who positively froth at the virtual mouth if anyone dares to question the literal existence of hell. The moderation team are nothing less than an Inquisition, scouring the boards day and night for the merest hint of heresy and forever screeching about the evils of wrong view, though as often as not they cannot even agree amongst themselves as to what this is since different traditions hold contrary positions on many matters. A sustained and brutal crackdown on limp, liberal views in recent months has sent most of the more intelligent contributors packing, leaving behind a deranged membership of the cowed and the hysterical. But there are still 'souls' to be saved. As one kindly member put it, he logs on to 'flame' those who propagate wrong views because a good flaming now is so much to be preferred to the unquenchable fire of Avici. I used not to believe in hell. I do now. It's called E-sangha."

Kevin Solway

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STATEMENT BY E-SANGHA MEMBER CHRISTOPHER [last name withheld on request]

Please post this comment to your "e-sangha watch" site. Thank you.

Hello,

I'm a member of e-sangha and I'd just like to say how hilarious it is that actual accredited Zen teachers and perfectly sincere and harmless posters are being banned from that supposedly Buddhist board. But I guess that's just the logical consequence of the moderators' stubborn clinging to absolute "rightness" of doctrine.

It's literally unbelievable that Buddhists, of all people, would insist on us having to adhere to a given set of beliefs in order to be allowed to converse. The moderators' official line, that there is something fixed called "right view" at all, let alone that it contains absolutely unchallengeable ideas such as rebirth, etc., is the diametrical opposite of everything I've ever learned from my own Zen master.

Just in case there are any doubts, please let it be known that e-sangha's policy and, while we're at it, any Buddhism on paper (or pixels) for that matter, has not the slightest thing in common with real, living Buddhism. If any evidence is needed, just look at the mods' attitude when they clobber any skeptical posters. They may wax wise and compassionate about this or that sutra until the cows come home, but their real egos shine blindingly through all the rosy - and often downright arrogant - prose.

I appreciate e-sangha for what it's worth, and of course nobody's perfect, but it really is a great example of what happens when people read too many books - it can't help but go to their heads.

Thanks for creating this site, and let's keep learning about our amazing human nature!

Christopher

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STATEMENT BY BANNED E-SANGHA MEMBER Torbjörn Andersson:

 
I paused for some time to think about what would be "Right Speech" in commenting on what had happened. My reason for writing this is because I've been banned from E-sangha for a second time.

The first time was when I was in a thread was when the zenpriest Jundo made a remark about ""the vast majority of Soto Zen Buddhist teachers in the West! Namely, (1) traditional ideas of rebirth and reincarnation are not to be taken literally in this modern age; and (2) Shakyamuni Buddha was a man, not a god or super-human being, and though enlightened ... was a human being like the rest of us" and consequently I was banned.

So i stopped visiting the website/forum for a while, until a friend of mine told me to look in E-sangha and check if I could get in. And lo' and behold, I could.

So i was back in the game again.

Not so much spending time and writing there, just browsing passed it to see if there we're any interesting topics and such.

Then, there was this topic where they wanted to know if there we're any "onlineteachers" or any thing like that available. And I thought I'd give him a tip about Jundo's videoblog on Beliefnet.com, so I did, but not saying it was Jundo (he is not welcome there, just try writing about him and you'll see...)

  I thought that it was good and I enjoyed and so forth.

The next day, sitting here not doing much i sailed in on E-sangha, just to find a big red sign telling me I couldn't get in...


Now, I don't believe "Buddhists should not fight Buddhists" and "there is only one Dharma" meaning that we're all friends on different (and same) road/s to the same goal. But a few injustices, or even important unfairnesses, are worth speaking up about from time to time.

And I also belive that if you go into an Theravadaforum, you respect that it is an Theravadan forum, the same goes for an forum on oxherding or any forum at all. Now, E-sangha is said to be an Buddhist webforum run by Buddhists for Buddhists of all Traditions. See my predicament?

Lately I've (since it being known I've been banned again) been hearing a lot of stories of people being banned for many different things, from naming a person or a tradition (some they say already on the infoside is not discussable) to writing about their beliefs and so on. Is that coherent with what they say on their own Site?

 
With that being said, I return to my Buddhistpractice and to forums were I'm welcome.

I just want to make clear that my intention when I wrote the on the topic was that my response at E-Sangha was an honest one in order to address the OP who asked for a teacher s/he could reach via internet.

Of course, after being banned, I only ask that they were polite enough to email me and tell me why. Sad to say...it was not the case.

 
May the force be with you

Fugen

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STATEMENT BY FORMER E-SANGHA MEMBER

Please withold my name from my posting.

I was a member of E-sangha for about 2 years. I was often frustrated by the amount of control exercised over communication by moderators on that forum. I take an agnostic position toward rebirth after death, and this position is not allowed. I do not refute it, nor do I endorse it simply because I do not know. Nor was I interested in pushing the view on anyone or attacking their beliefs. I did not pose my view as traditional Buddhism. However, this was not tolerated. Several moderators, one in particular, forcibly insist that anyone who does not endorse rebirth after death is not a Buddhist. Conversations were closed and postings were deleted, for this topic and other ones. I was surprised because most of the other topics did not seem very controversial, but apparently there were a sore spot.

I am a non-sectarian practitioner, but I often noticed a less-tolerant attitude toward issues of Theravada practitioners compared to Mahayana/Vajrayana ones.

I left E-sangha ultimately because I found it to be of little use. There was a definite fundamentalist tone in the way it was run. There was little or no tolerance for any diversity of views. I don't enjoy creating or participating in controversy, so I tend not to start or participate in lots of debates. I was not disciplined by moderators, nor was I banned. It just became more trouble than it was worth. It wasn't adding anything to my practice.

I can understand the position of the administrators. The internet is like the wild west, so they must have some control in order to make it a working forum. I also understand that they have to draw lines somewhere, and in the process of being a moderator, they must become vigilant about watching those boundaries. They belive firmly in Buddhism, and perhaps this strong emotion affects their judgement.

I also believe that this situation is something of a by-product of an internet forum. It gives people like moderators absolute control over what other people express, something like what happens in totalitarian regimes. They way speech is controlled in online forums would be impossible in person without a Gestapo and duct tape. On internet forums it can be done with the click of a button. I don't think any of the moderators are "bad people," but rather people with a tricky job and a unique situation that lends itself to misuse.

I don't have any quick solutions for this. Perhaps a more democratic style of governace with checks and balances would help. But in any case, thank you for making this public on E-Sangha watch. People who participate in the forum have a right to know, and dissenting opinions are squashed on that site.

 

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STATEMENT BY A WELL KNOWN, CURRENT MEMBER OF E-SANGHA  who states: about his comment: "I would prefer at this time that you say it is offered by a current E-Sangha member who wishes to remain anonymous in order not to be banned."

I find this quotation to be relevant to the question of Buddhist ecumenicalism that seems to be missing at Esangha.

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STATEMENT BY NEW KADAMPA TRUTH

Many New Kadampa Tradition (NKT) practitioners and others have been shocked over the years to find that the NKT is banned from this supposedly open Buddhist forum, the largest Buddhist chat group on the Internet. However, a reading of the background to this ban and who instigated and maintains it will hopefully reassure people that the reasons behind it were completely capricious and unjustified.

E-Sangha is a Buddhist forum that started in 2003. In September 2003, E-Sangha administrators conducted a poll of its members to decide if the NKT section that had been started on the board should be removed. This poll was requested by Global Moderator Henry Chia, also known as Ngawang Gelek, a Sakya practitioner from Singapore who had posted actively against the NKT on the alt.religion newsgroup discussions during the Dorje Shugden controversy in 1996/97.

Labeling the NKT as non-Buddhist for its reliance on Dorje Shugden, Henry cut and pasted every single negative article regarding the NKT and Dorje Shugden taken from the TGIE and Dalai Lama official websites and then advised the members "to make up their own minds". As one member pointed out: "Thanks to Henry, plenty of information is now available for folks to make an informed vote." There was no information, however, posted from the side of the NKT or any other Shugden practitioner.

There never was a vote. By the middle of September 2003, "Teyes", the E-Sangha founder, had decided:

"I have read through almost every word that Henry had written, clicking on almost every link. The messages are exhaustive and I tried hard to digest the vast amount of information. I am not an expert in Buddhism, although raised in a Buddhist family, thus all members help are required, especially in issues like this. I appreciate Henry's frankness in raising this point and I agreed with Henry that:

1) There will be no links to NKT website as from today.
2) There will be no seperate listings of them as a unique group within our database.
3) All NKT's folks can participate in all our discussion.
Thanks everyone for their help, especially Henry. (So members, you can disregard the votes about NKT). Have a nice day!"

And he followed this with another posting later:

"Dear members,
I have considered all the pros and cons when NKT section was removed. After examining, I am rather worried that newbies in Buddhism might be misled. That's my main fear, especially E-Sangha has been growing steadily over the last 2 months, and is right now, the most active board on Buddhism. I hope that we will put this issue behind us. Thanks."

With no knowledge of the NKT other than what he had heard from Henry, and despite the fact that the NKT had hundreds of Centers and thousands of students all over the world who were happily and sincerely practicing Mahayana Buddhism, the owner of E-Sangha condemned the NKT as dangerous for "newbies", a theme that was continued in all subsequent discussions.

Another administrator called Namdrol joined in the discussion and over a period of many months provided E-Sangha members with a huge amount of astounding and sometimes laughable misinformation. For example:

"Gyalpos also cause strife and cattle diseases. The outbreak of Mad Cow disease in Northern England a couple of years ago has been attributed to the strong presence of Shugden practitioners in Northern England."

However, because he was an "old-timer" and an administrator, his words astonishingly enough carried weight and adversely influenced many people. For example:

"Namdrol's point's should be well taken, he really knows his stuff when it comes to Tibetan Buddhism. He has practiced for a long time and personally knows many very high lama's, and Rinpoche's".

Namdrol has devoted many postings to slandering the Gelugpa tradition in general that was passed down through Je Phabongkhapa, Trijang Rinpoche and their disciples, even casting aspersions on Lama Zopa and the FPMT (who have the Dalai Lama as their patron). Not once has another administrator asked him to stop his divisive, intolerant and sectarian speech.

Here is an example of the intolerance toward the NKT on E-Sangha that was enshrined as policy in 2003 and continues to this day against the NKT, from a recent thread concerning the opening of an NKT World Peace Cafe:

"The NKT is not a legitimate Buddhist organization in my opinion. For this reason, I would certainly avoid the cafe. I would also spend an hour or two emailing leads to local media about the controversy surrounding the cult."

"the NKT is dangerous and the spirit they worship is too. how can they propose to open a world peace cafe when the biggest part of their organization is the worship of a malicious spirit?"

"As we all know, this cult have done and still doing so much damaging to the public"

"To them Dharma is a business opportunity to fund the growth of their sect and kelsang gyatso's empire."

"You could always be an infiltrator, share some other views. Would be interesting to go in there and say you know, a lot of people consider the NKT to be a cult."

(For the smear that Geshe Kelsang has profited from the growth of the NKT, please see Smear: Geshe Kelsang has millions of pounds that have come from his disciples) (please link to http://www.newkadampatruth.org/geshekelsang8.php#geshekelsang.)

It is clear that some E-Sangha members are sufficiently militant to take action against the NKT by contacting venues where classes are being held to get them cancelled, defacing publicity, and vandalizing Geshe Kelsang's books in bookstores so that they won't sell. Some members have openly boasted about engaging in such activities, and the existence and effects of these behaviors are one reason the New Kadampa Truth website was compiled (please link to http://www.newkadampatruth.org)


E-Sangha's mission statement reads: "E-Sangha's intent is to keep the tradition alive and flourishing, and to help bring peace, harmony and happiness into everyones lives." Yet they have been the source of destroying peace, harmony and happiness between Buddhist groups and practitioners since they began in 2003.

http://newkadampatruth.wordpress.com/2009/03/05/e-sangha-and-sect-bashing-continuation-of-the-cult-smear-history/

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SAMPLE STATEMENTS BY OTHER NEW KADAMPA TRUTH MEMBERS

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STATEMENT BY E-SANGHA MEMBER PETER SALINWAY

Hi,

I posted this on E-Sangha and just wanted to let you know that I am sorry that you were mistreated by them. You may post my posting from E-Sangha with my name.  That would be great as my original post has been deleted.  What a surprise.  Please take care.

Peter

"Since I have joined this forum I have not found any help in furthering my studies of Shingon Buddhism except being told to study Tibetan Buddhism. I have been very disturbed by all of the people who have been banned. People seem to be ex-communicated. I don't know who these moderators are or their credentials. I expect this to be erased and that I will be ex-communicated since I must be violating some rules or offending someone but I write this out of frustration and hearing about people being banned. I recall that Rev. Jion was "ambushed" about his credentials and then banned. Shouldn't people who claim to be Buddhist show more compassion? I don't even want to get into the subject of reincarnation. That seems to be a subject that if you don't agree with the "party line" will get you banned. The Buddhist community in the USA is very small and squabbling about doctrines, credentials and other issues that separate us will only promote fracturing of the Buddhist community."

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STATEMENT BY REV. SHI FA DAO, ZEN BUDDHIST ORDER OF XU YUN

Greetings,
I am an ordained priest in the Zen Buddhist Order of Xu Yun. This is a Chinese order that was started by the Chan Master Zhi Din went he went from China to Hawaii and who was a disciple of the famous Chan Master Xu Yun. He patterned it somewhat on the way that the Japanese Soto sect operates, having lay people, priests, and monks.
Anyways, to get to the point. Although I was not banned from E-sangha (although I probably will be if you post this on your site) the moderator Hui Feng decided that he didn't think the order I was ordained in was a legitimate one and went into my profile, changed my name from Rev Shi Fa Dao to just Fa Dao and deleted any reference to my ordination. I was sent an email by Hui Feng (who is an ordained monk)telling me of this and that I was not to claim that I was a priest or teacher on the site any longer. To add further insult many of my posts were deleted by him when I very politely and respectfully called him on some of his "opinions". It seems as though anything that doesn't fit into his views of "orthodox" Chinese Buddhism is hounded and ridiculed.  here is one example:
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=75953&hl=
I have read through many of his posts and although he seems to be a brilliant translator he does come across as being very condescending, sometimes bullying, and even a little bit arrogant. However, I will let you be the judge.
Although I have not posted since this incident I do go in and read some of the postings as there are still quite a few good people there. I am somewhat reluctant to say much more for fear that I might break my vows of talking badly of other members of the Sangha, but you and your staff might want to check out some of his posts.
Once again, thank you for starting this website.
Sincerely,
Rev Shi Fa Dao, Zen Buddhist Order of Xu Yun

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STATEMENT BY FORMER E-SANGHA MODERATOR

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STATEMENT BY CURRENT E-SANGHA MEMBER


Thank you for your site.  I believe it is always good to hear both sides of any issue.

However within the way Esangha is run, a lot of meaningful discussion gets tabled, deleted or worse.   Even though one of the moderators posted that people can always 'choose not to read certain posts'.  You can't read what is deleted now can you?  The illusion of harmony must be attained despite all.

And Buddha forbid if you mention the fact that they delete posts or censor threads,  'public discussion of moderator activity' is a big no-no.  Even if that moderator is being an overbearing bully.  There is no path to address moderator abuses.

Its not the site I joined 3 years ago.

With metta,
--jtsomo

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STATEMENT BY CURRENT E-SANGHA MEMBER "ISLAND"


Enough is enough

I used to post regularly to e-sangha especially in the help section where my skills are best shared.  The moderator cooran, who had already dogged me for no particular reason, all of a sudden removed posts about suicide prevention and crisis counseling even though I have training in the field.  She demanded to have me list all my credentials, including dates, places, certificates, and so on.  I thought it was rude and intrusive so I said no, that personal information was just that.  She would not leave me alone, PMing me about a half dozen times until she threatened me and used the "site" as the authority on which she was requesting information.  I felt I had no choice and provided the information.  But I complained to the admin and asked that cooran not come near me again.  The admin said that cooran had no business asking for personal information and was completely wrong in representing herself as the "site" so she would be disciplined.  The incident left a bad taste in my mouth so I left.  I returned after a while and there was cooran, moving and deleting my posts.  I got tired of this behavior and left again.  After a much longer period I returned and each and every one of my posts was moved including serious discussions moved to places where people were describing breakfast and pets.  Not that breakfast and pets aren't important but really....  And I found too that my access to the Zen forum to post new topics was blocked.  I didn't really get an adequate answer about why that was, but in a way I don't want to know.  Enough is enough.


Gassho ...  you are doing a great service to Zen and Buddhism generally by pointing out the fundamentalism of that site which I didn't cover in my note but which is rank throughout, like melting fish on a hot tin roof. ... Thanks for your reply and keep up the good work.

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STATEMENT BY CURRENT E-SANGHA MEMBER


You are so right for doing this. The mods such as Eijo have a way of framing the discussion about Zen and it is very misleading that they themselves do not practice Zen. Whenever I have tried to point out that comments contradict basic points of Zen practice as I was taught, I have to worry about having the post deleted. It happened only a couple of times, but it causes me to hesitate to do it again. Sickening.